Post by Gituku on Mar 11, 2007 4:59:53 GMT -5
I'm not going to sugarcoat it, folks. Kings and Vagabonds Muck is not, and has not been, healthy. Not for a long while. Is it dead? I don't quite think so yet, but I sure as heck *do* think that if I don't say *something* so that people have an idea how we got to be where we are, that it will be, so I'm going to say it.
I think you've a right to know.When I don't know things or they're hearsay, I'll say so, and when I do, I'll say I do... proof upon request frankly. I look at this and no one is completely right. There are no martyrs here. But nor is anyone some vile, evil person. Selfish, yes. Several of us enter that category.
We started KaV with a fairly ample number of players that eventually became wizards... about ten. We all had the same goal... to build a Lion King-based muck to sustain the stranded populace when Ed closed Endless Round. We all contributed especially in the early days. We worked very hard to get the muck up, and we did so within a few days. Most impressive, really.
The ten or so became our wizards. As time started to march on, several wizards, myself included, drifted from the muck, trusting that the other folks could run it and do a great job, keep this place running. That was Timon's and my mistake both. We should've been there.
As time went on, issues came up regarding the players' behavior and the muck rules. With Timon and myself awol, a group of wizards particularly stepped up to take on the workload... but also to decide how things should be, as they saw them. Chukizo, Ajazi, Kiniro, and Chisulo are the ones that I know that fit this group.
We then add to the mix, the problem players and the fact that they needed to be dealt with. I have talked enough with the wizstaff to know that this was not a mere prejudice of a single wizard or two. The group at large agreed that we had some players causing problems with disregard for the rules, particular the idea that the muck be family oriented. ... And then there were some more personalized matters of offense, such as the 'thumbs' and object use surrounding the meerkats.
In response to the problem players, Chukizo and Ajazi particularly were trying to rein in the trouble. They devised a set of rules that never quite made it public. It was batted around the wizard boards for quite some time. These suggested rules have since been deleted (and we will get to why in short order, as it's one level of the big thing that is truly killing this muck), but these rules were very derogatory, very authoritarian, and very aggressive against the playerbase. Things like not pestering the wizards about the rules once they were decided, respect for wizards and the like, were cast in a way to suggest that the wizards didn't want to get into it with the players.
We then have Bahati and Zazu, two wizards who may have liked these folks as people but did not like the hardcore stance that Chukizo and Ajazi had taken against the players in these suggested rules. They also didn't like some of the offensive behavior from the players. Bahati resigned from the wizstaff and only declared part of the reason, leaving the part about not agreeing with the wizstaff and not feeling that she could have a calm discussion on the matter. Zazu, meanwhile, drifted a bit, disappointed by the strife. He wanted to distance himself from it.
It is at this time that Timon and I, very much out of the loop, came back in, because we knew something was up when Bahati resigned. As no one else was speaking up much about the suggested rules, we started to. Bahati offered to rework the rules that Ajazi had primarily set up. She, btw, did an excellent job and the rework was a great balance of setting up boundaries without lashing out at the players.
Timon and I sought to get back into things, asking that we start discussing rule changes and the like with all wizards and giving some time to respond before finalizing them. There was some disagreement on how to do that, and as a trial, we set it up so that rule changes would take two weeks, more minor issues that would not be muck rule changes would take one. Kiniro decided, proactively, to tackle a problem with a player who had been soliciting other players for offmuck TS. The big problem there was that there was no clear policy on it, and Timon and I did not frequent the boards thoroughly or often enough. The issue got by us, and Kiniro told this player basically to cut it out, as the wizstaff had decided against the policy.
... But Timon and I hadn't heard a thing. Through our own faults? Somewhat. We should've been on a bit more, regardless of rule. Kiniro, despite meaning well, should've really tried to contact the wizstaff or at least refrained from speaking as if the entire wizstaff had agreed. Timon and I found it to be in poor taste that someone was speaking for us when we weren't consulted. A spat erupted, primarily between myself and Kiniro, about the rules, how they were defined, and what they were there for.
What I'd wanted was for the whole of the staff to be able to weigh in on things, and there was a disagreement. Some folks still felt waiting over a week for issues was waiting too long. Others felt that there was a push to rush a decision through and it blindsided them. ... The long run was that Kiniro got very frustrated. I sought to apologize to her, because I was so focused on the fact that we were left out and that it hadn't been the two weeks set up for rule change that I forgot that she was trying to really resolve something and get it done. Similarly, she forgot that Timon and I were trying to get into things and we felt she rushed. Disagreement.
Kiniro, by that point, had had her fill of problem players and the dysfunction of staff, and she opted out. Chukizo and Ajazi soon followed suit.
Herein comes the second half of the problem. Ajazi wanted his posts on rules from the board and anything to do with them removed. ...This included posts that involved efforts by Bahati and Timon to set up rules. Ajazi himself did not delete them. Chukizo did so in one of her very final acts before having the wizbit removed at her request.
I confronted her on how that was wrong. That didn't get anywhere, because wrong though it was, she did it out of loyalty for a friend... instead of thinking about the muck itself. It would've been different if she or Ajazi would've asked and let someone else delete them. But let's face it, there's no point in asking if you're just going to do something, and for that matter, take others' work with you. That's where that ruleset that was controversial went, and it's why I can't show anyone what it said.
So, much unrest abounded, three wizards gone and all. Some acted better than others. One thing that I did know was that for this muck to survive, even with the strife onstaff, we would need the effort and abilities of the two former wizstaff to keep everything going. They were major players on the muck and good ones.
Well, Ahadi was not cast and so began the process to cast Ahadi. We didn't get many applicants and so Ahadi went to a player. Another very prominent player decided that if the other was going to play Ahadi she wasn't going to have anything to do with RP, and she'd worn thin on the whole muck. I'm sure that's a recurring theme here, people frustrated with how things are going... and that'll get to my final point.
Chisulo, today, had decided that she had tried for long enough to close a bleeding wound, so she has decided to resign. She still is going to remain a player, I believe. But she wanted Kiruuke deleted when she stepped down.
Now that you have some basis for what's been going on, let me explain something.
SELFISHNESS IS DESTROYING THIS MUCK.
When Timon and I left things to be run by everyone else, that wasn't fair to the other wizards, especially if we wanted things to be done as a team.
When Chukizo and Ajazi decided to come up with a strict set of rules and vented so long and so much that they alienated other wizards who didn't want to tackle the runaway train of 'we're pissed and something must be done', that was wrong. I've read some comments on Wizchat by the two of them that were highly inappropriate (and yes, there are logs for these, hopefully I won't have to use them, but can if it's needed). They were angry at how some players were behaving but they took it far too personally, and they belittled those players openly and in private. When things didn't go well and Timon started coming around directing them on what they can and can't do, on how we should start looking for input from the whole staff rather than a few, the clash happened. And Kiniro left. And they followed suit, not wanting to be toaded, but still acting to remove things that *should be* for the benefit of the players, not for themselves. They left, and did so quite negatively. As badly as they could've? Thankfully, no, but they did not leave gracefully.
Then there's the casting thing where Uru didn't want to continue when someone got Ahadi. Then Chisulo wanted out but wanted Kiruuke gone.
SELFISH.
And I'm not saying I wasn't. Actually, scratch that. I always kinda wanted to be on to help a little bit but this wasn't my baby. I wanted to help. I never expected to get this deeply involved, but someone had to. Timon gets involved but drifts. You all know that. Zazu and Bahati get discouraged and opt not to confront. Chukizo and Ajazi in particular were very confrontational and disrespectful, again due to their frustration with the playerbase (which was later displaced somewhat to Timon and myself when we tried to get back into things).
I didn't want this muck myself so much as I wanted to help Timon make it a success. But regardless, this is no time for me to rationalize. The point is the same and so is the blame.
My point is this. If you really, *really* want this place to succeed, it's time to cut the crap. Someone's cast and you don't like it? Well then you should've applied for the role or encouraged someone else to. Or you can RP with others and minimize the RP with that character. You don't need to say you're done RPing and walk out. Regardless of what else happened, that's selfish.
Want your land you built for the muck or had written for the muck deleted because you're not gonna be on wizstaff? Selfish. Want to delete stuff that in part belongs to someone else to help a friend? STILL selfish.
Want everyone else to do all the work while you reap the benefits? Selfish. And that one goes to Timon and me, although if you haven't noticed, I've been here recently. I've built. I've tried to find some sensible ground.
If you want this place to survive, then you, ALL of you, have a basic choice. You can get involved and try to work with others, or you can fold your arms and decide you're too good for it, or that you gave at the office. This place will not survive without your, and other people's, help.
No one gave so much that now they can sit back and watch it implode. This muck owes no one a living. If you want the benefits of fun RP then it's time to work with others, and realize that not everything will go your way. But taking your ball and going home does not make you above all this.
It's time to work together, to call people on their shit, and to see if this is a place worth saving. If you want to see it survive, then help.
The muck is in your hands. What we need now is not a pure leader, not a pure follower, but people with the wisdom to do both when the time calls for it.
I think you've a right to know.When I don't know things or they're hearsay, I'll say so, and when I do, I'll say I do... proof upon request frankly. I look at this and no one is completely right. There are no martyrs here. But nor is anyone some vile, evil person. Selfish, yes. Several of us enter that category.
We started KaV with a fairly ample number of players that eventually became wizards... about ten. We all had the same goal... to build a Lion King-based muck to sustain the stranded populace when Ed closed Endless Round. We all contributed especially in the early days. We worked very hard to get the muck up, and we did so within a few days. Most impressive, really.
The ten or so became our wizards. As time started to march on, several wizards, myself included, drifted from the muck, trusting that the other folks could run it and do a great job, keep this place running. That was Timon's and my mistake both. We should've been there.
As time went on, issues came up regarding the players' behavior and the muck rules. With Timon and myself awol, a group of wizards particularly stepped up to take on the workload... but also to decide how things should be, as they saw them. Chukizo, Ajazi, Kiniro, and Chisulo are the ones that I know that fit this group.
We then add to the mix, the problem players and the fact that they needed to be dealt with. I have talked enough with the wizstaff to know that this was not a mere prejudice of a single wizard or two. The group at large agreed that we had some players causing problems with disregard for the rules, particular the idea that the muck be family oriented. ... And then there were some more personalized matters of offense, such as the 'thumbs' and object use surrounding the meerkats.
In response to the problem players, Chukizo and Ajazi particularly were trying to rein in the trouble. They devised a set of rules that never quite made it public. It was batted around the wizard boards for quite some time. These suggested rules have since been deleted (and we will get to why in short order, as it's one level of the big thing that is truly killing this muck), but these rules were very derogatory, very authoritarian, and very aggressive against the playerbase. Things like not pestering the wizards about the rules once they were decided, respect for wizards and the like, were cast in a way to suggest that the wizards didn't want to get into it with the players.
We then have Bahati and Zazu, two wizards who may have liked these folks as people but did not like the hardcore stance that Chukizo and Ajazi had taken against the players in these suggested rules. They also didn't like some of the offensive behavior from the players. Bahati resigned from the wizstaff and only declared part of the reason, leaving the part about not agreeing with the wizstaff and not feeling that she could have a calm discussion on the matter. Zazu, meanwhile, drifted a bit, disappointed by the strife. He wanted to distance himself from it.
It is at this time that Timon and I, very much out of the loop, came back in, because we knew something was up when Bahati resigned. As no one else was speaking up much about the suggested rules, we started to. Bahati offered to rework the rules that Ajazi had primarily set up. She, btw, did an excellent job and the rework was a great balance of setting up boundaries without lashing out at the players.
Timon and I sought to get back into things, asking that we start discussing rule changes and the like with all wizards and giving some time to respond before finalizing them. There was some disagreement on how to do that, and as a trial, we set it up so that rule changes would take two weeks, more minor issues that would not be muck rule changes would take one. Kiniro decided, proactively, to tackle a problem with a player who had been soliciting other players for offmuck TS. The big problem there was that there was no clear policy on it, and Timon and I did not frequent the boards thoroughly or often enough. The issue got by us, and Kiniro told this player basically to cut it out, as the wizstaff had decided against the policy.
... But Timon and I hadn't heard a thing. Through our own faults? Somewhat. We should've been on a bit more, regardless of rule. Kiniro, despite meaning well, should've really tried to contact the wizstaff or at least refrained from speaking as if the entire wizstaff had agreed. Timon and I found it to be in poor taste that someone was speaking for us when we weren't consulted. A spat erupted, primarily between myself and Kiniro, about the rules, how they were defined, and what they were there for.
What I'd wanted was for the whole of the staff to be able to weigh in on things, and there was a disagreement. Some folks still felt waiting over a week for issues was waiting too long. Others felt that there was a push to rush a decision through and it blindsided them. ... The long run was that Kiniro got very frustrated. I sought to apologize to her, because I was so focused on the fact that we were left out and that it hadn't been the two weeks set up for rule change that I forgot that she was trying to really resolve something and get it done. Similarly, she forgot that Timon and I were trying to get into things and we felt she rushed. Disagreement.
Kiniro, by that point, had had her fill of problem players and the dysfunction of staff, and she opted out. Chukizo and Ajazi soon followed suit.
Herein comes the second half of the problem. Ajazi wanted his posts on rules from the board and anything to do with them removed. ...This included posts that involved efforts by Bahati and Timon to set up rules. Ajazi himself did not delete them. Chukizo did so in one of her very final acts before having the wizbit removed at her request.
I confronted her on how that was wrong. That didn't get anywhere, because wrong though it was, she did it out of loyalty for a friend... instead of thinking about the muck itself. It would've been different if she or Ajazi would've asked and let someone else delete them. But let's face it, there's no point in asking if you're just going to do something, and for that matter, take others' work with you. That's where that ruleset that was controversial went, and it's why I can't show anyone what it said.
So, much unrest abounded, three wizards gone and all. Some acted better than others. One thing that I did know was that for this muck to survive, even with the strife onstaff, we would need the effort and abilities of the two former wizstaff to keep everything going. They were major players on the muck and good ones.
Well, Ahadi was not cast and so began the process to cast Ahadi. We didn't get many applicants and so Ahadi went to a player. Another very prominent player decided that if the other was going to play Ahadi she wasn't going to have anything to do with RP, and she'd worn thin on the whole muck. I'm sure that's a recurring theme here, people frustrated with how things are going... and that'll get to my final point.
Chisulo, today, had decided that she had tried for long enough to close a bleeding wound, so she has decided to resign. She still is going to remain a player, I believe. But she wanted Kiruuke deleted when she stepped down.
Now that you have some basis for what's been going on, let me explain something.
SELFISHNESS IS DESTROYING THIS MUCK.
When Timon and I left things to be run by everyone else, that wasn't fair to the other wizards, especially if we wanted things to be done as a team.
When Chukizo and Ajazi decided to come up with a strict set of rules and vented so long and so much that they alienated other wizards who didn't want to tackle the runaway train of 'we're pissed and something must be done', that was wrong. I've read some comments on Wizchat by the two of them that were highly inappropriate (and yes, there are logs for these, hopefully I won't have to use them, but can if it's needed). They were angry at how some players were behaving but they took it far too personally, and they belittled those players openly and in private. When things didn't go well and Timon started coming around directing them on what they can and can't do, on how we should start looking for input from the whole staff rather than a few, the clash happened. And Kiniro left. And they followed suit, not wanting to be toaded, but still acting to remove things that *should be* for the benefit of the players, not for themselves. They left, and did so quite negatively. As badly as they could've? Thankfully, no, but they did not leave gracefully.
Then there's the casting thing where Uru didn't want to continue when someone got Ahadi. Then Chisulo wanted out but wanted Kiruuke gone.
SELFISH.
And I'm not saying I wasn't. Actually, scratch that. I always kinda wanted to be on to help a little bit but this wasn't my baby. I wanted to help. I never expected to get this deeply involved, but someone had to. Timon gets involved but drifts. You all know that. Zazu and Bahati get discouraged and opt not to confront. Chukizo and Ajazi in particular were very confrontational and disrespectful, again due to their frustration with the playerbase (which was later displaced somewhat to Timon and myself when we tried to get back into things).
I didn't want this muck myself so much as I wanted to help Timon make it a success. But regardless, this is no time for me to rationalize. The point is the same and so is the blame.
My point is this. If you really, *really* want this place to succeed, it's time to cut the crap. Someone's cast and you don't like it? Well then you should've applied for the role or encouraged someone else to. Or you can RP with others and minimize the RP with that character. You don't need to say you're done RPing and walk out. Regardless of what else happened, that's selfish.
Want your land you built for the muck or had written for the muck deleted because you're not gonna be on wizstaff? Selfish. Want to delete stuff that in part belongs to someone else to help a friend? STILL selfish.
Want everyone else to do all the work while you reap the benefits? Selfish. And that one goes to Timon and me, although if you haven't noticed, I've been here recently. I've built. I've tried to find some sensible ground.
If you want this place to survive, then you, ALL of you, have a basic choice. You can get involved and try to work with others, or you can fold your arms and decide you're too good for it, or that you gave at the office. This place will not survive without your, and other people's, help.
No one gave so much that now they can sit back and watch it implode. This muck owes no one a living. If you want the benefits of fun RP then it's time to work with others, and realize that not everything will go your way. But taking your ball and going home does not make you above all this.
It's time to work together, to call people on their shit, and to see if this is a place worth saving. If you want to see it survive, then help.
The muck is in your hands. What we need now is not a pure leader, not a pure follower, but people with the wisdom to do both when the time calls for it.
