Adhama
Full Member
It?s not in my nature to be mysterious. I just can?t talk about it and I can?t talk about why.
Posts: 126
|
Post by Adhama on Mar 14, 2007 14:53:30 GMT -5
Plain and simple, I'm waiting for it to die. I'm making no effort to continue its feeble life support. If it's going to come back it'll do it on its own Uh huh...so what you are saying is- you won't do any pf the work needed to revive the Muck, but if we do get it back up you will be here to reap the benefits, if we don't get it back up despite our efforts, since you have distanced yourself from the muck, you will not feel bad, and as you have already shown, insult and laugh at the people who tried and failed. So in other words, as you sit back and laugh at our "feeble life support" that we are trying to give, and if it does work, you mooch off the restored muck. That makes me sick that you, a wiz who helped make this place, will refuse to lift a finger to save it and instead laugh at those who do.
|
|
|
Post by Chisulo on Mar 14, 2007 14:54:33 GMT -5
Wrong. We've worked our asses off. That's all I'll say here.
|
|
|
Post by sumu on Mar 14, 2007 14:57:41 GMT -5
YAY POLITICS
I /did/ leave the MUCK completely as of resigning my only character, Zira, the other day. Just a note.
And a MUCK is also dead if there are no wizards. No wizards = no growth.
Anyway, this all stinks of the big hooplah back in May of 06 with the Pro-Eds vs Anti-Eds, with a few minor differences, but that's just me.
|
|
Runako
Junior Member
Mommy says I'll never rule... I ask her why... she says Daddy was a bastard.
Posts: 75
|
Post by Runako on Mar 14, 2007 14:58:10 GMT -5
We aren't saying that you guys didn't.
|
|
|
Post by Lindani on Mar 14, 2007 15:00:42 GMT -5
We're saying that you're all pathetic for repeating the same mistakes that brought down ER.
If you're all gonna stink of childish self-importance so much to say that the MUCK just can't survive without you, that you're so important that you're the only ones who can 'see it die' then you never deserved to be wizards. I'm glad all your work has turned out to be an utter failure if you're letting it end like this.
I'm done with the forums.
|
|
Ajazi
Full Member
The moron formerly known as KHAAAAAAAAL.
Posts: 202
|
Post by Ajazi on Mar 14, 2007 15:01:02 GMT -5
Excuse me? YOU are all of the ones who have been benefiting from OUR labor throughout the MUCK's entire existence. Shut up and do it yourself - oh, wait. No. You're saying that you're failing at it, I forgot. No. No, I will NOT feel bad about leaving what I consider to be an abusive staff-to-staff relationship. KaV has been slowly sucking my energy and life dry, and I'm sick of it - so I left the staff. Now I'm going to watch it go down in flames, since I truly don't think that anyone else will be able to resuscitate the MUCK back to where it was except for the wizstaff that has resigned. I will also tell you that most likely none of us will be willing to do so much as type in a sentence to help those who've been so ungrateful. Wake up and smell the coffee, children.
|
|
IceHeartedLion
Full Member
You always hurt the ones you love... Well, it works both ways.
Posts: 123
|
Post by IceHeartedLion on Mar 14, 2007 15:05:05 GMT -5
Nothing else to say because if this keeps up, we'll end up having a bunch of spam and kitties. And Chisu? Don't know if you got it wrong, but we mostly were saying this to those who bother. Your posts are not offensive or spammy, but bleh. *enough*
Yes Ajazi, watch it burn down to flames. But do it in silence sitting on a corner away from those who care. You are sick? we are sick of that stuff too, be nice and just WATCH, no meddling.
|
|
Runako
Junior Member
Mommy says I'll never rule... I ask her why... she says Daddy was a bastard.
Posts: 75
|
Post by Runako on Mar 14, 2007 15:06:15 GMT -5
You know what... I'm done with the forum of a long while. I'm not spending my last two days with the net, reading about how people say the place is dieing, or how one says that, 'we did this' or 'didn't do this'. Wiz, non-wiz, players... I just don't care anymore. I've had enough. I'll see you all when the muck, should it ever, comes back up or in two wonderful months. Don't think i'll miss any of those who degrate the thoughts and efforts of those who try.
I end here. Goodbye, farewell and may you one day see me again.
***
No farewells back.. Thats cool. Shows how much I'm liked around here.
|
|
|
Post by Bahati on Mar 14, 2007 16:22:22 GMT -5
I'm fed up, too. But for different reasons!
The same thing happened to K&V as ER - and, for some reason that I can't even fathom, we're somehow surprised. Like it or not, ladies and gentlemen, Sunrise, Kings & Vagabonds and Meadows share the same playerbase. There are a few exceptions, but if you play on one game - you probably play on them all, or are at least familiar with the others.
So what went wrong here?
Lots.
I will say this once, and only once. The wizards DID put a lot of work into this place (and so did the players!). When Ed took ER down, they had K&V up in a matter of hours. What you guys don't know is that K&V was never meant to be a replacement for ER. It was meant to be an entirely different TLK MUCK with darker, more mature themes - but we sacrificed that so the ER playerbase had a place to play. Unfortunately, we had way too many wizards and we carried them all over from ER without worrying about what personality differences might arise. Timon and Gituku were never very active, which left the remainder of staff to hold things together, a task we found increasingly difficult as time went on. Things were happening that made a couple of us uncomfortable, and when we tried to deal with it, we received responses that made us feel even worse.
All this probably would have been okay, if it wasn't for the badmouthing that was happening on other MUCKs. We got complaints from the outside, telling us that our players were out of control and that we had to reign them in. Unfortunately, we did a piss poor job of it and things have been completely out of control since due to miscommunication. The only wizards that are left (read: Timon and Gituku) went on vacation shortly after Gituku made a post condemning everyone involved, leaving Zazu and Asrohc to clean up the mess. Notice how they didn't bother announcing their absence, either.
Guys, I love you all. I really, really do - but this game was doomed from the start because we carried directly over from ER. We didn't pause to take a break or mend the relationships that were strained when Ed shut the damned thing down. If we had, I think both wizards and players would have been more tolerant towards each other. If we had, we probably could have made this work - together.
I hate that this continues to be a former staff versus playerbase debate. It's both our faults, guys. We both should have been nicer. It's that simple. The "YOU RUINED OUR GAME!" argument isn't valid. Neither is "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH WORK WE PUT INTO IT" because, you know what? We do. Everybody does, because we all put work into it - players and staff alike. We just had very different visions of what we wanted our new, post-ER game to be. We got too excited, too fast.
There's always a chance that somebody reading this could start another TLK-based game, and I don't doubt that some of you have considered it... but I think we all need a break from TLK. At least for a little while. If you want to play African animals, pop over to Sunrise and let go of any grudges you might be harboring (this goes for all of you). As Zira said, there's also Meadows.
We need time to reflect on the failures of this MUCK and repair our relationships with each other before we venture into the realm of TLK again.
|
|
Runako
Junior Member
Mommy says I'll never rule... I ask her why... she says Daddy was a bastard.
Posts: 75
|
Post by Runako on Mar 14, 2007 16:46:36 GMT -5
*sneaks in a final post*
Thank Bahati.
|
|
|
Post by Bahati on Mar 14, 2007 16:56:29 GMT -5
I would like to make public, at the request of several players, two threads from StaffChat. One in which the concerns of former players are addressed by the wizards, and the thread which leads to Kiniro's resignation.
I think it's only fair that the players see what caused the remaining staff to quit so we're all on the same page. The hearsay and he-said-she-said has gone on long enough.
Of everything in StaffChat, I think these two threads most clearly illustrate how the game got to be the way it is right now. There are others, but I'm keeping them where they are.
However, before I do this, I want to be sure that is okay with Yaro - as his name is brought up in one of the threads and I cannot withhold it without losing the context of the conversation.
If there are any objections, they will remain where they are. I respect the privacy of the parties involved.
|
|
Gwala
Junior Member
Posts: 65
|
Post by Gwala on Mar 14, 2007 17:34:45 GMT -5
Bahati, you rock.
|
|
|
Post by Bahati on Mar 14, 2007 18:30:46 GMT -5
I didn't realize there was another page to this thread, and as such was not able to read Lindani's original posts - which I'd like to address, if that's all right with y'all.
Lindani, I know you guys mean well, but as is, Timon and Gituku have policies in place that prevent any of the wizards (not that there are any left) from doing anything without waiting over a week to get approval. That's not the way a MUCK should work. Wizzes quit because they were being prevented from doing their work.
Even if they did hire a completely new wizstaff, the new wizzes would have a hard time getting anything accomplished. Want to start a new group? Dissolve an old one? Talk to a problem player? Step in to resolve an argument? You have to give nine days notice to your headwizards and hope that they get back to you in that amount of time.
Unless they dissolve this rule, nothing is going to happen. Ever.
I can't even begin to count the number of posts in StaffChat that haven't been replied to.
I'm not sure if I should be locking threads or deleting macros. It would certainly clean up the forums and maybe help contain things, but that would be abusing the power that I have - and as I'm no longer a wizard, I don't feel comfortable.
Keep in mind there wouldn't be a problem if your two remaining wizards hadn't taken off on a vacation without telling anybody. Never mind the fact that one of them left a really nasty post the night before, intending to let it EXPLODE! in his absence.
The trolls were not trolls before Gituku intentionally provoked them by plastering a story on the forums that isn't entirely factual. I'm beginning to wonder if he wasn't TRYING to kill this place.
|
|
Ajazi
Full Member
The moron formerly known as KHAAAAAAAAL.
Posts: 202
|
Post by Ajazi on Mar 14, 2007 19:04:29 GMT -5
Fujo's still technically around. <3 the Fujoface.
|
|
|
Post by Chukiface on Mar 14, 2007 19:10:18 GMT -5
I may not be a wizard, but I am still here.
And no one can RP/post RP logs/do anything because the server is down. And guess what? It will more than likely stay down until Timon and Git get back.
May I point out what has already been said about that. They left without annoucing to the playerbase, and shortly after Git made his inflamatory post. You want to know what started the flames and macros? That was the spark, as far as I am concerned.
It is hard for me to take things seriously here anymore, at all. But that doesn't mean I am going to stop reading and posting. Honestly, this entertains me greatly now that I am not a wiz and am not required to care as much as I used to. Which was a sh*t ton.
|
|